Sally:
Hey Pocket Money pals. Hey Marc, how are you?
Marc:
I'm fantabulous, Sally. How are you?
Sally:
Oh, I like that one. I'll sprinkle that into my conversation going forward. So last episode on Pocket Money, we got schooled on the strategies you can use to make the most out of Black Friday, which is easily one of the biggest sales events of the year we learned, so make sure to go back and listen to that episode if you missed it.
Marc:
Yeah, that's right. Move over Boxing Day. Black Friday is the new day for shopping. So to give us a bit of a behind-the-scenes look at what goes into Black Friday and these massive sales events, we went down to the eBay Australia HQ in Sydney and spoke to a very special guest.
Sally:
Yeah, so we had a chat with eBay Australia's head of retail insights, Gavin Dennis. And in this part two of everything Black Friday, we spoke with Gavin about what it's like for eBay during what is the busiest time of year for them, as well as some pretty crazy stats about when people are going to be shopping and the most popular items on the shelves. What's hot and what's not.
Marc:
Yeah. Let's play our interview with Gavin.
Sally:
Welcome to Pocket Money, Gavin. Thanks for joining us today.
Gavin Dennis:
Thanks. Great to be here.
Sally:
Well, thanks for having us. Actually, we're at the eBay HQ. Exciting stuff.
Marc:
Yeah, we have a beautiful view out on the water, this is a nice change.
Sally:
So today we're going to be talking all about Black Friday. And Black Friday was originally a term used to describe this time of year when retailers began to turn a profit and that's went from being in the red to being in black. Is that still the case? Or.
Gavin Dennis:
I think that's probably moved on a little bit since then. I mean, that was back in the US when in the 50s. They sort of launched Black Friday. I think that was probably true, but it's evolved significantly over many, many years. And now it sort of heralds the start of the shopping season. In the US clearly. And I think now in the last sort of five years, it's become similar here in the in Australia as well as in it's the start of the real Christmas shopping period. So it has evolved a lot. And you know, it's a really exciting time for retailers and specifically for eBay as well.
Sally:
Yeah, it sounds like it's become a real extravaganza real event of the season. Do you know like, what percentage of the overall revenue comes from this time of year? Is it massive?
Gavin Dennis:
It's actually a really interesting time. And I think this year, particularly, we're seeing some interesting trends around online shopping. This year, Black Friday is going to be our biggest shopping day in terms of visits, actually, which is different to previous years. We're going to have about 2.6 million people coming to the site on Black Friday this year. So it's much more than last year. And you know, it's going to be sort of heralding the start of the shopping season for us ahead of the kind of Christmas rush, so, yeah, it's, it's it's going to be a big, big day for us.
Marc:
We were really interested in going backstage behind Black Friday, eBay and just finding out what generally are people buying, you mentioned how many people are going to visit, but what will they be buying?
Gavin Dennis:
Toys are going to be very popular. Electronics is going to be popular health and beauty, again, is going to be popular. We think there's going to be roughly 5.5, sounds pretty accurate. 5.5 items are gifts sold every second. So that's an incredible number of items sold during the whole Black Friday day. And in fact, toys we reckon they'll be a toy sold every four seconds. So it's going to be pretty full on there's gonna be a lot of great deals happening. And, you know, I think it's gonna be a great opportunity for people savvy shoppers to find some great deals.
Sally:
Yeah, definitely. And you know what specific items, whether it's electronics or toys, seem to be hot on the shelves this year.
Gavin Dennis:
I do, we actually did a toy event recently. And we sort of looked at the top toys that are going to be popular this year. And in fact, the number one toy is a toy called an Owlee, which is essentially a, an owl that you have to care for nurture, and sort of, you know, it's an interactive toy. And the more you look after it, the more confident it gets, and then it starts to fly. And so, you know, to coin the phrase, they're going to be flying off the shelves on Black Friday.
Sally:
That's so cute.
Marc:
It's like 2019's Furby.
Sally:
I was just gonna say that and also, Marc if you're wondering what to get me for Christmas,
Marc:
Okay. 10 Owleez.
Marc:
Last year, he predicted that the 45 minutes between 8:30pm and 9:15pm on mad Monday would be the busiest of the entire festive, season. Do you have any insights like that regarding Black Friday?
Gavin Dennis:
So it's it's going to be similar is going to be in the evening, again, around about the same time sort of 8:30 to quarter past 9, I think it is. And again, that's when we're going to see the peak traffic coming to the side. I think it was the number one shopping destination in Australia, we have this amazing wealth of information that we can get our analysts look at and predict the sort of busiest time down to a sort of 15-minute period. So that's when it's going to be so similar to previous years. And as in couple years, you're in the last few years, mobile is going to be really popular as well. So the 2.6 million people visiting the site 1.9 million are going to be via the mobile device. So that remains a constant for us. And you know, people love that convenience factor.
Sally:
Yeah, so true shopping on the go.
Marc:
During that period. I'm guessing it's gonna be all hands on deck here at eBay?
Gavin Dennis:
Oh, yeah, look, I think, you know, the great thing about a marketplace is that you know, you can be shopping on the bus, you know, sitting in the sofa in the bath, you know, Wherever you want to be, you know, the site is always open. And particularly with mobile, it's so convenient. So getting access to, you know, great selection, great prices. We've got 40,000 top retailers, both big and small. You know, I think the platform provides that great sort of freedom, both for buyers and sellers.
Sally:
And you mentioned that you work with so many massive retailers in Australia, do you know how far in advance these sorts of retailers have to start preparing stock for Black Friday? I like to imagine that right now. They're like, all in their warehouses being like, it's coming! Like stocking the shelves.
Gavin Dennis:
Look, I think that's that's true. I think the phenomenon of Black Friday becoming really the start of the shopping season, like I said earlier, is something that's been part of the Australian retail industry for the last like four or five years. And so I think people know retailers now are much more prepared for this period. And so they are getting all this popular toys ready. You know, it's great day. On the go, in fact, we are, we're launching our Black Friday sales on the 21st. And in fact today, and, you know, that's going to be an opportunity for us to showcase some great deals. And yeah, we're working with our retailers to make sure that we are ready to have those deals ready, and, you know, for them to be able to be available for our buyers.
Marc:
And with the huge increase in volume of sales, do you find that there is an increased volume of returns? And and also, how does that all work with returns and the economics behind it?
Gavin Dennis:
I think returns is just a reality of the retail landscape that we operate in. And you know, I think the things that we've done to make online shopping at eBay convenient is to make returns convenient as well. So regardless of this type of products, and the volume that we sell returns will be a part of it. And so, you know, we just make it make it as easy as we can for our buyers. In terms of what we've done. We've launched actually a fantastic value membership site program called eBay Plus. And that's actually gives you free returns and free shipping. So even if you're buying lots of items, it's free to return them. And so, you know, you get this great benefit for $49 a year, and you get deals, you get free returns free shipping. And you know, you can sort of all shop on eBay at one time.
Sally:
And Gavin, you mentioned earlier that Black Friday did start in the US, but now it has become quite the global shopping phenomenon, especially in Australia for the last few years. How does Black Friday in Australia compare to the rest of the world, do you think?
Gavin Dennis:
Look, I think it is similar in many ways to Black Friday in the US and the UK. I think the one difference here is that I think Black Friday become more of an online shopping event. And so the growth that we're seeing in online shopping through Black Friday is evident by Black Friday being our biggest day this year. I think in the US, it still tends to be sort of somewhat of a physical kind of experience. You know, you go to the store as you queue up as well as online. So I think here, we're more on online, and then obviously days like, you know, Singles' Day that just happened, you know, this week, you know, that's a global phenomenon that's happening. And you know, in China and in other parts of the world that's big. But for us, you know, Black Friday, this year is gonna be our biggest day. And we like we're really excited about what's coming. And it really just, is to start a Christmas for us in many ways. And I mean, even now you can walk around the city and driving to work, you start to see all the decorations coming out. So you know, it's coming.
Sally:
That's really interesting that Australians are more likely to shop online. I know I definitely am. And we actually just did an episode with our FinderStyle expert, Alex, and she was telling us we did a little game she was telling us all of these horror stories of things that had happened in-store on Black Friday and people like getting into fights with security, like, you know, like a $2 price difference and I'm like, no, I'll be in my pyjamas online. Getting my Owleez. That's it. No in-store shopping for me.
Marc:
Agreed, definitely. Gavin, what has changed on the business side for Black Friday? So we mentioned that it's predominantly an offline sales event. What started as that, but how has ecommerce changed Black Friday?
Gavin Dennis:
You know, the reality is that, you know, we're all time poor. Your time is like the most valuable resource almost. And so having, you know, the mediums where you can conveniently shop for not only sort of, you know, Christmas gifts, or just everyday items, then convenience is a big part of it. So that's definitely something that's changed, I think. And we know that our app and our mobile site is, you know, rated very highly, and we continue to evolve that. So making shopping experience easy for people is the first thing. And then I think the second thing is just around value and selection. I think Australian shoppers are savvy buyers. And so they're looking for deals. And so you have to make sure that you've got the best prices, you've got the most selection and so as we grow our group of retailers and get more selection, people are going to be able to find what they're looking for at the right price in the most convenient and easy way. So a lot of what we do around our business is just enabling that and making sure that buyers and sellers are being put in that position to, you know, transact. And we enable commerce ultimately, the end of the day.
Sally:
And you mentioned earlier that Black Friday is the biggest day of the year for eBay, which I find really interesting because I thought that Boxing Day would have been the biggest shopping.
Gavin Dennis:
Yeah, that's changed. It has changed, I think. So I think this year is particularly interesting because Black Friday is essentially it's a week later than last year. And I think when we look at our data from previous years, it's tended to be the first Monday of December has been the busiest online shopping day. But now because Black Friday is a week later, we think that that's why this this event is is taking a sort of prize there Boxing Day is still a big day for for us, it's obviously a big sales day traditionally been one for many, many years. But this year, Black Friday is the one that's it seems to have the most media and, it has the most deals. It's the early start to the shopping season. And that's really what's driving the data that we're seeing.
Sally:
Yeah, that's so true. I think I've seen so many more emails even coming through, you know, the weeks before Black Friday may like sneak peeks of Black Friday sales and using that the Black Friday brand to push shopping even before the sales event, or to you know, maybe hint some of the sales that will see. Yeah, I know that personally, I definitely do more of my shopping on Black Friday, because that's what I'm getting the Christmas gifts out of the way. Boxing Day is like, no.
Gavin Dennis:
No, I think you're right, it means that you can get I mean, you you get an early start to Christmas, and then you can focus on spending time with a family or do whatever you want to do and not worry about the mad rush to get presence right at the last minute.
Marc:
Do you think that Black Friday is changing shopping behaviour? So for example, last year, Australian retailers supposedly had a bit of a disappointing December. Yeah. And some say it's because of Black Friday. What do you think about that?
Gavin Dennis:
I think there's an element of truth there. I think it traditionally if you go back five years, then Christmas was like that was the big kind of shopping season. I think this sales event is pulling forward sales. I think there's truth to that. And I think that, you know, the concept of shopping online, you know, having the best deals having great selection, then why wouldn't you do that and get it all out of the way? Doesn't mean that kind of Christmas right now is not big. It's still a really big time of year. But I think it means that the shopping season has been elongated. And now it's a much longer period starting with Black Friday, finishing with the Boxing Day, probably. But yeah, I think that's probably been the main landscape change. I know that last year, I think ABS data came out and said that there was a bit of a dip in December. So, you know, be interested to see what happens this year.
Marc:
Yeah. I think I speaking personally, I'm much more like cognisant of Black Friday this year than I was last year. And I'm like, Oh, actually, yeah, why wouldn't I do my shopping? If I can save on my Christmas shopping? Why not do it now? Yeah, rather than wait and then bought start buying things on Boxing Day?
Gavin Dennis:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Sally:
And you've given us a little bit of a hint of some of the popular items this Black Friday, but what are you going to be buying this Black Friday? Do you have anything on your list?
Gavin Dennis:
Well, really like the Owleez actually.
Marc:
How many Owleez?
Sally:
We'll take 50.
Gavin Dennis:
We've actually had one in the office that we've kind of been testing and it's being sort of courted by many of our staff, but so I think the toys some of the toys are great. I mean, I love those interactive toys. They're really fantastic. You know, getting the kids away from screen time onto something a little bit more interactive and educational even so I think that's great. Like electronics is always going to be popular you know, with a new iPhone out recently then you know, we're going to see strong sales coming through there. And then health and beauty of that, that's always been a popular category for us. And I think, you know, there's lots of great retailers on the site that offer a fantastic deals around health and beauty. So there's lots of opportunities. I think, regardless of your interest and your age, or demographic or whatever, you'll always find something on eBay.
Marc:
And more broadly talking about ecommerce in general, what do you think is coming next? For example, there's virtual dressing rooms, buy now pay later, where do you think it's heading?
Gavin Dennis:
The reality of the online ecommerce space is that it's a competitive market. It's great for buyers, like they get the latest kind of innovations around virtual reality, augmented reality, you know, different ways to sort of fund your purchase of items. So I think that's all interesting stuff. And we're in absolutely at the forefront of lots of those things. I think, how we think about it is you know, we are a true marketplace. We don't compete with our sellers. Our job is actually to enable and empower our sellers and buyers to transact and do it in a ubiquitous and you know, fair way. And you know, that's how we, you know, when we turn up to work. That's how we think we're thinking about buyers and sellers in that community. And, you know, what can we do to make it easier for them, whether it's somebody selling, you know, a small kind of online store in Toowoomba, to you know, our bigger retailers and like, you know, Coles, Myer, David Jones, you know, we're kind of there for everybody.
Sally:
That's awesome. And now that Black Friday is upon us. If you had one piece of advice for all the shoppers out there, what would you leave them with?
Gavin Dennis:
My first piece of advice would be to if you haven't yet, download the eBay app. That's the best way to shop, obviously, make sure you are aware of the deals that are coming. Like I said, we're launching our sale on the 21st of November today. There's going to be millions of deals across thousands of great retailers. And just be savvy, be smart and go for it.
Sally:
Start doing your research!
Marc:
Get those Owleez while you can.
Sally:
Well, thank you so much for chatting with us, Gavin. Happy shopping.
Gavin Dennis:
Yeah, happy Black Friday.
Marc:
Yeah.
Sally:
That's a wrap. Another Pocket Money episode to go down in history.
Marc:
Another one on the books. Remember, this is part two of our Black Friday series. And the first episode has all the nitty gritty shopping tips that you'll want to know. Before the sale on the 29th of November.
Sally:
Yes, so make sure to go back and listen to that one. Pick up some kick ass Black Friday shopping tips. Shopping expert Alexandra Hourigan really ran us around, gave some good tips.
Marc:
Yeah, that's right. I now feel confident and supported by Black Friday. Adventure. That's it from us, boss. Follow us on Instagram, subscribe. You can find the cast wherever podcasts are found. And as always, Sally, would you like to tell our listeners about our show notes.
Sally:
Sure. So if you Want to check out all of the latest Black Friday shopping tips as well as the deals that will be going down this year? Make sure to check out finder.com.au/podcast for all the details. Bye everyone!
Marc:
See you later!
