Podcast: How to develop “rich habits” with Michael Yardney
Want to get rich? These are the habits you need to learn.
The path to becoming rich is not a sprint, it's a marathon. If you look closely, there are some surprisingly similar reasons most millionaires around the world have achieved financial success. As you'll hear on today's episode of Pocket Money, it all comes down to forming the right habits.
We sat down with Michael Yardney, one of Australia's leading property commentators, and host of the popular Michael Yardney Podcast. Michael has studied the rich and mentored many successful investors, entrepreneurs and business owners, documenting his findings in his international bestselling book, Rich Habits, Poor Habits.
Michael, Sally and Marc delve into a number of the habits you should seek to develop if you want to grow your wealth, and why it's so important to not only act rich but think rich. From planning your future to learning the power of delayed gratification, this podcast will help get you on the path towards finding financial success in your own life.
Mentioned in this episode
- Get the book: Rich Habits, Poor Habits
- The Michael Yardney Podcast
- Michael Yardney's PropertyUpdate.com.au
Read the transcript of this episode
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Michael Yardney:
If you emulate other people, if you follow other successful people, not just by what they doing, but you gotta go deeper how they thinking, then you're likely to become like them.Marc:
Welcome back to Pocket Money. Today, Sally and I spoke with Michael Yardney, one of Australia's leading property commentators and host of the Michael Yardney Podcast. He's also an author of some great books about property investment, which I've read in the past, and also the book Rich Habits, Poor Habits, which is all about the habits you should adopt and habits you should avoid if you want to become rich. So without further ado, here's Michael Yardney. Just for those who may not know who you are and what you do in this space, maybe you could introduce yourself?Michael Yardney:
Sure. I'm getting into my middle to late 60s but I've been investing since I was in my early 20s. I bought my first investment property for $18,000 and I took a 30-year loan and I wasn't sure how I was going to pay it. Over the years I've built a substantial property portfolio. I run Metropole Property Strategists, national firm of strategic property advisers and buyer's agents. We have a wealth advisory and a financial planning firm as well. But my interest is in the psychology of success, the psychology why people get rich. And so I write about it at propertyupdate.com.au and on the popular Michael Yardney Podcast, and I've had a books published on it. So I think I can teach you a little bit about pocket money.Sally:
Yes, just a little bit. What a resume.Marc:
So I've read Rich Habits, Poor Habits, and I've also read one of your books on property investment, and they've both been really helpful. Today, we're going to be tackling the different habits and secrets to getting rich, and we're going to pick out a few of them and just sort of tackle them in detail. But my first question was, how did you initially connect the dots and recognise that mindset is actually the most important ingredient to become wealthy or successful in finance?Michael Yardney:
Years ago, I started conducting seminars talking in front of a couple hundred people. And what happened was, half a dozen people would actually take action and do something and guess what the rest of them did nothing. So I wanted to be good at my job, like other people wanted to be good at the job. So I didn't do longer seminars, I did evening ones. I did weekend ones, I had multi-speaker events. And you know what happened? We gave all this great information. And half a dozen people with 10–15% did something and the vast majority did nothing. And that made me wonder, why is it that in Australia, where we've got all the information and the ability to become wealthy, why do some people become rich, successful and by the way, the two are not related. I see a lot of rich people who are not in my mind successful or wealthy because they unhappy or miserable. So this isn't a judge of people. But most of us want more choices in life, their fancy car, exotic holidays, the luxury house. And so why is it that most people don't get it and that I spent many, many years studying that. And then eventually mentoring people. And I teamed up with Tom Corley, who done a five-year study in the United States about that. And we put it together and that book Rich Habits, Poor Habits.Sally:
Yeah, it's interesting that your mindset and I guess the psychology around it, like plays such a massive part. I don't think that a lot of people would think that when it comes to their money. But a little while ago, we did an episode on Pocket Money about the whole FIRE movement. So financial independence, retire early, and so much of that was about okay, well, how do I change my mindset? And I think that's the first step.Michael Yardney:
Very much so, but there's actually a step before that. There's actually recognition of where you are what's going on. So you're 100% right. That in anything that these skills are learning and you can change. I learned many years ago that the thoughts lead to your feelings. Your feelings lead to your actions, your actions lead your results. Your thoughts and feelings are internal, your actions and the results are external. So your outside world is really a reflection of what's going on inside and early in life. We're taught things like dirty money filthy rich, and so the if you taught the wealthy people, a dirty nasty have raped, robbed or pillage, then what happens is, if you suddenly come into some money, and you want to be a good person, subconsciously think, hey, that's not right. I don't want to be that way. And so I see many people sabotage themselves silly and don't get to the next level.Marc:
Let's move on to the actual habits themselves, shall we? So let's tackle the first habit rich people plan the future. So what should you do if you actually don't know what your goal should be when it comes to money or where you should even start?Michael Yardney
Well, at least the first tip is to educate yourself and understand and there's some great resources like this podcast. And may I say the Michael Yardney Podcast. And there's lots of good blogs on Finder and many other places. So educate yourself so become aware that the is a potential also recognise that it's going to change, you have to change. So what you've got to do is start making some plans. We're talking about a small group today we can only cover of the habits that successful people have done. And the reason I'm suggesting we do that is because if you emulate other people, if you follow other successful people, not just by what they doing, but you got to go deeper how they thinking, then you're likely to become like them. So if you eat like healthy people, even you exercise like healthy people exercise and think like healthy people think you're going to change your body shape and your weight and your your health and much the same with successful people. So we've got to understand what they do and successful people plan. They plan by the day, they actually know where they're heading. And everything they do, in general points them to where they want to go in the long term. So they have daily, weekly, monthly goals. And making money is one thing, but you actually have to create wealth. So a lot of people have got good incomes, but they actually don't, at the end of the month, have anything left over to show for it. And that translates to at the end of the year, the end of their lifetime when they retire with just a home and nothing else.Marc:
That's actually a really interesting point. And that's also one of the other habits, which is that the rich are good savers. And just to bounce around a little bit through the book, if there's one habit that's more important above all else, do you think that is the one like in my mind, saving is like almost like the cornerstone before anything else is possible?Michael Yardney:
No. Marc, there is one before that. And that's understanding the importance of delayed gratification, because when you understand that then the saving will have a purpose. So there is a mindset prevalent today of instant gratification, we're living in an on-demand society that looks for quick results. And unfortunately, in some ways with very little effort. Now the rich know that life doesn't work that way. They know that you've got to put sweat equity into it. So therefore, some people are going to leave school straight away and get a job. So they get some income straightaway. They're not going to invest time in the education. Others will spend six years going to university to become an architect, a lawyer, a doctor, and then they go to have more income that's going to give them the potential in the future to save and become rich. Others show delayed gratification you in other ways, what you said a moment ago, they save, they actually spend less than they earned. They save the difference and they invested and they then bring the future forward by planning and know why they're doing it.Sally:
Delayed gratification is a really interesting concept because like you said, you know now more than ever, we live in a world where instant gratification is definitely a thing like you can get anything you want to purchase basically anything with basically just like one button on your phone. So do you think that it's potentially harder than ever to really switch to that delayed gratification mindset? Or do you have any tips especially for young people, you know, who are really starting to figure out their finances but have grown up, you know, potentially in this world of the Internet and being able to get everything they want at their fingertips?Michael Yardney:
Sally, you're right, it is harder because when I grew up, I actually had to save because there wasn't credit cards. Think about that. No credit cards, so you couldn't put it on the credit card, and there wasn't tap and go and there wasn't Afterpay. The problem is most people don't recognise that the limit on their credit card isn't their money. It's somebody else's money that you're paying a privilege to use for and paying a very expensive cost for using it. So to go to the tips that you're talking about. So my suggestion would be when you're online and you're about to do something, put something in your shopping cart, and don't click "Send", don't click "Yes". Don't click "Buy", think, is it a need? Or is it a want? Do you really need it? And I'd actually go away for an hour and come back. And if you still need it not want it then click "OK". And go ahead. And for bigger items, then I've actually wouldn't just wait an hour and leave it in the shopping cart. I'll think about it overnight.Sally:
That's such a good tip. And I actually do that all the time, especially if it is exactly not a need, it's more of a want. I'll put it in the shopping cart and then just leave it there for a couple of days. And then it's almost like I feel like by putting it in the cart, I've got that like gratification and then in like a week I'm like I don't even want this anymore like I'm over this now.Michael Yardney:
Well that's delayed gratification.Sally:
Gold star for me.Marc:
Well done, Sally. You should have written this book. Michael, I wanted to touch back on the habit about education. How much education do you need? Or should you get if you prefer to work with an expert, for example, like a financial adviser, or a buyer's agent in property? Yeah, if you prefer to work with them on building your wealth.Michael Yardney:
Well, the concept of education is one of the success habits of wealthy people. And even if you read Warren Buffett, one of Australia's the world's richest people who's a multi billionaire, he still spends hours every day reading and learning. So one of the success habits we found of wealthy people is educating themselves and reading they read daily, but not for entertainment. They read to educate themselves, they upgrade their skills, they upgrade the knowledge to make themselves more valuable the job. But I also believe that even if you're going to outsource, and I hope people do outsource the property buying services to our team at Metropole, you should never outsource the knowledge. So whether you go to a financial planner, a buyer's agent, you should have the knowledge and know the right questions to ask. Because unfortunately, there are many different classes of financial advisers, buyer's agents, real estate agents, people ready to take your money while there's others who are on your side. How do you tell the difference? That's by you having the basic knowledge and knowing the right questions to ask, Marc.Sally:
We asked some of those questions just the other week when we did an episode with an award-winning financial adviser. So we knew we knew we had the goods, Charlie Viola, but we were like, where do you start? I've never had to use a financial adviser before. So I was like, what questions would you even go in and ask you obviously need to have a plan. He gave us quite a few great tips, especially for newbies who are like coming into it and they don't know where to start. So I think that's definitely a good point. Educating yourself before you even get that expert advice is is definitely essential.Michael Yardney:
But the fact that you're asking for advice is another rich habit. Alone you can run faster. But together, you can actually run further. If you're the smartest person in your team, you're in trouble. You can't be an expert in everything. So I still have mentors. I still seek advice. And that's actually one of the other habits of wealthy people. They seek advice. They have mentors, but they prepared to pay for it.Marc:
Yeah, this is always a question I have when it comes to mentors, especially mentors that are, you know, friends, or just someone that you know, that you look up to, I always have the question of how you approach them without sounding like you just want free advice, or you just want to just tap them for information and then leave. Do you have any tips about how to approach that?Michael Yardney:
Sure. So part of it, Marc is hanging around the right people, because you've probably read that you have average of the five people you hang around the most. So if you wear lycra and ride a bike every weekend, because all your other friends do, it's very likely you're going to be fit and healthy. If you go to sit on the couch each night and the potato you watch The Simpsons, it's very likely that your mates are all going to be much the same as well. They say that your network is your net worth. In other words, if you lie with dogs, you're going to come up with fleas. So if you hang around the right people, that the conversations you're going to have with them, the natural conversations you're going to have with them going to be encouraging enlightening, they're not going to say, "no, you can't achieve that", or "what do you think about why would you even want to save? What do you want about you should get the latest handbag, the latest boots", so it will be part of the natural conversations, Marc, rather than the questions you have to ask them if you're hanging around the right people because they talk about different things.Marc:
Yeah, and that's right. And I think that's one of the points of the book as well as removing toxic people out of your life. And you know, like you said, they might be the people who are saying, "Oh, you know, you can't do this" or, or "you shouldn't indulge yourself a little bit".Sally:
Why are you looking at me like that Marc? That's it. I'm cutting you at no one no more of your toxicity.Marc:
Sally's a bad influence. That's great advice. You touched on. Also the fact that rich people are generally prepared, they do get started on these kinds of things early. And that is one of the habits that future millionaires get an early start with, with wealth building. So Sally and I are both sort of in our 20s. I'm, you know, approaching thirty. But does that mean that it's sort of too late for us?Michael Yardney:
No, it's never too late. But it takes a long time to create wealth, particularly in today's low interest rate, low wages, low return environment. So I don't know what the world is going to be like when you retire. I don't know if there's going to be a pension. I don't know whether you're going to be able to use your super how you're going to be able to use your super whether there's going to be negative gearing. I don't know who the government's going to be. What I do know though is if you have a substantial asset base, you're going to have choices. So what investors should be doing is building not for cash flow, but building for asset base growth. So that's why to my mind, well located residential real estate in the capital cities is a great way to invest, because over time, you're going to build a substantial asset base. So no, it's not too late. But it takes 20 to 30 years to build a big asset base. I know there are get rich quick schemes out there in the share market in the property market come along to my weekend seminar and you can leave your job you you can buy 6 properties in 6 minutes or 10 properties in 10 years, doesn't work that way. A get rich quick is a way of making other people rich, but helping you get poor quickly as well. These schemes don't work. So take time, be patient, and the biggest asset people your age of got is actually your earning capacity. You've got another 20 to 30 years of earning capacity, and I don't know what your income is. But if the people listening to this ever think about it, multiply their income out. They got millions of dollars still coming to them. What are they going to do with it? They should take advantage of that. And part of it is recognising the need. That's where this Pocket Money podcast is really helpful, because it makes them think, hey, I actually should spend less than I am, put them inside the bit of difference and, and start getting into something.Sally:
So there's still hope for us yet, Marc.Marc:
We're not doomed.Michael Yardney:
You're not doomed because of the significant earning capacity that you have got. That's a great asset. Life changes. You got to buy a house, you have kids, you got to pay kinder fees, school fees, whatever. But the answer is most of us get a little raise. And as the raise goes up, as your income goes up, you get a better car, you move into a better apartment, you buy nicer clothes, and it's called bracket creep, and you don't have anything left to show. So I see lots of people who earn high incomes, but still rent and still haven't actually saved. So what you've got to do is what the tax man does. Remember the tax man doesn't trust you to pay the taxes at the end of the year. They take a percentage out every week, every fourth month, whenever you get paid, knowing that you're not going to remember to do it at the end of the year, similarly, your saving should be automated as well. So if you put aside 10 or 15% starting today, and then you live on what's left.Marc:
Yeah, that's great advice. That's that's something that I tried to do. And oftentimes I succeed, but then there is also like months where it is harder to save unexpected things pop up, which is why you need to save in the first place, right? It's like a cycle.Michael Yardney:
The money comes out first Marc, and then you left with what you're left with. We all have fixed expenses, like the rent or mortgage or or fixed payments, and then this discretionary expenses. And what you do is you therefore put it in little buckets, what's left over for your variable expenses. Well, yeah, if it's a tough week, you eat baked beans or go back to mum for a week of her.Marc:
It's actually a great point, even thinking about my own grandparents like they grow a lot of their food, they have a little garden and they when they came to Australia, obviously that was like a way of saving money. But they've done that. Literally. They're in the mid 80s. And they're still doing it. And they just save all their pennies.Sally:
I love imagining them have like different jars for everything. Is that what you do?Marc:
I don't want to splash out on jars.Sally:
I guess the equivalent the modern day equivalent of that is there are so many apps out there that you can track your spending and see the different areas that you're spending on like food, entertainment, whatever it is, and then obviously necessities and you can figure out like where your money is going. And then I guess if you have different savings accounts for different things or divide your money, you know, you have like your savings and you have money put aside for the fixed expenses that you mentioned. And then you have what's left for for fun.Michael Yardney:
What you're talking about Sally is budgeting, you know, for a lot of people budgeting is they think I'm going to work in front I spent last month that's not the case. What you actually should be doing is budgeting where your money's going to go in the future and then oh definitely, you can do that. Because when you do, you can just suddenly realise where your money's gone. A couple of weeks ago, I was actually sitting having a chat with a couple of our property managers who managed their clients' properties. And they were actually outside the building having a smoke they were wanting to get ahead financially to another system. I we just do a quick sums how many cigarettes you smoking a day, a week? How much is that costing you? And how much is it costing a year, but they were spending as a couple $300 a week. And when we multiply that by 50 understood that there was almost a deposit on the car, or a price of a car or well along the way of getting a home.Sally:
Just burning your money away.Michael Yardney:
Exactly. Exactly. The other habit that a lot of people have a bad habit. A poor habit is gambling. And the reason poor people tend to gamble is they see it as the way out of the rat race. So they buy the lotto tickets, they see all the rich, they've got loads of choices I haven't I'll never get out. So I'm actually going to gamble. The rich know that gambling is a text for people who can't do match. You can't win the lottery.Sally:
That's such a good point. And it's such a massive issue in Australia on the other side of that another, I guess, behaviour of rich people that kind of seems a little bit counterintuitive. Is that they're generous and give to charity? So can you talk a little bit through that? Because I know the the saying is that the rich stay rich by spending like the poor, right?Michael Yardney:
Well, no, they don't. It's one of the things that I come across to we I personally support a number of charities. We've run three charity balls. My wife Pam has an only yesterday she was talking about it happens to be her birthday today, the date we're doing this podcast.Michael Yardney:
Happy Birthday, Pam I'll let her though, and one of the things here's the true giving up her birthday gifts. She's giving a large amount to her favourite charity, very special kids. But the wealthy give to charity. And the wealthy recognise that when you get to the top, you got to send the lift down to bring other people up, while the poor actually don't see that they don't see all the quiet, silent stuff that the wealthy do. So they think the rich and greedy, not the case at all. In fact, once a year, for five days on the Gold Coast, I run wealth retreat, which is a $10,000, five-day event that a lot of wealthy people come through to get to the next level, and others would think they look from the outside and say, why would a group of already very successful wealthy people go into room to move further forward? And when you hear what their goals and their plans are? A lot of it has to do with contribution and giving back. It's one of the bits in the DNA of all wealthy people, Sally.Sally:
That's lovely. Yeah. So we've been armed with so many tips of both the poor and the rich, we know what to do and what not to do. But to wrap up, we thought we'd go through a bit of a rapid fire round of underrated or overrated. So we'll give you a topic or saying and then you can quickly say underrated or overrated and we'll, we'll get your tips. So first one one of my favourites always money advice, like don't buy coffee or smashed avocado?Michael Yardney:
That's correct. To say underrated are overrated because you waste so much on that when you could make your coffee yourself. So that's a highly rated advice.Marc:
But it doesn't taste as good, Michael!Sally:
That's not the answer I wanted!Michael Yardney:
But can I tell you that now. I can afford the best cappuccino machine in my house and in my office. I can afford to go to the best restaurants and the best places for my lunch. Delayed gratification.Marc:
What about your thoughts on crypto currencies? Underrated or overrated?Michael Yardney:
I would never invest in any asset class or business unless I know enough about it. And I believe at the moment is being overrated. I don't think enough people understand about it. And only people that are seeming to make some money out of it are the ones who tried to teach others about it. Wait a while before you get involved.Marc:
Following on from that, but obviously much more in the sort of more accepted traditional routes of making money. You're obviously into property, but investing in shares, overrated or underrated?Michael Yardney:
Oh, I think it's a great investment class. So it's probably underrated. Most of us have shares in our super fund, because as everybody who's employed, the employer, their boss takes 9% out and put it into super. So there's a formula for saving for the future. The trouble is you can't access that till you're 60 or the rules may change over probably even more later on. So one has shares there. Shares is a good investment class, because it brings some cash flow in. But it's actually not a capital growth asset class. And it's also very, very much more volatile. So a few weeks ago, there was the all the big fuss that the share market hit the highest point it had for 10 years, it got back to where it was in the Global Financial Crisis. In the meantime, property values have doubled and doubled in value again, so she's got the place.Sally:
Okay, what about RBA interest rate cuts underrated or overrated?Michael Yardney:
Well, the RBA is on a mission at the moment to get unemployment down. And it wants to bring it down to 4.5% in this county about 5%. Now, that's a good task, but I don't think the lower interest rates are going to bring it down. So they're overrated, because at the moment, we're getting a higher participation rate, more people are going back into the workforce. So we've got more people employed than ever, but a lot of them are underemployed. They're not doing the jobs they want. So I just recently read that the if you add together the unemployment rate and underemployment rate together that comes to 30.5%. And that's why wages aren't going up, because there's still capacity spare capacity in the market, in the employment market, but the low interest rates, again to give another boost to property values.Marc:
Awesome. What do you think about artificial intelligence, especially when it comes to jobs, because I know you've recently written about this?Michael Yardney:
I see the job market changing considerably over the next decade. I read recently that 30–40% of jobs in Australia are going to be gone by 2030. And it doesn't mean we're going to be unemployed. But the jobs that you and I and some other people doing won't be around because there's going to be a whole lot of new ones. And definitely artificial intelligence is going to replace certain jobs. And the other factor to take into account is certain jobs are going to be offshore done go to other parts of the world. So I guess the job you've got, I've got today, we're very likely going to be in a different point in five or seven years time. But that's okay. I still actually have a lot of confidence in Australia as a nation because we're in the middle of Southeast Asia, which is a huge growing economy.Sally:
And last but definitely not least, in the WISE WISE words of Biggie Smalls, what about the saying "mo' money mo' problems"? Underrated or overrated?Michael Yardney:
Totally overrated. Let me tell you a different thing, Michael Yardney's words. Any problem that money can solve is not a problem. So if your car breaks down and your credit card is maxed out, and you can't get it fixed, that is a problem. If my car breaks down, my biggest problem is where's the 1800 number to ring the people are going to tell it and take it into the shop and fix it up and give me a loan car in the meantime. But that is the core thing that has held so many Australians back. And maybe the way of finishing off this show is to understand why people say that. And it's come from well meaning parents and people because it helps justify that they haven't been successful financially. So if those rich people have got more problems, if those rich people aren't generous and give to charity, if those rich people are greedy, if they've must have robbed or taken advantage of people to get rich, then it's not bad for me to be poor, doesn't work that way. It Australia, we got this tall poppy syndrome, Tom Corley, my co author of Rich Habits, Poor Habits, shoes in America. When I mentioned that to him, he said, "what's that mean?", and I said all when people stick up the hips and say I'm successful, they locked them off. And you should, you don't have that in America. In America, if people are successful financially, we actually applaud them. We want to emulate them. We want to be like them.Sally:
Well, thank you so much, Michael. I've learned so much and I'm sure our listeners have too. We have of course mentioned your book, and a few other resources, which will make sure to check in the show notes@finder.com.au/podcast. But if listeners want to learn more, either about you know, some of the topics we spoke about today or yourself or your podcast, where should they go?Michael Yardney:
Well, the first place is the Michael Yardney Podcast. And if you do a Google search, you'll find this on all the podcast apps. And daily there's the property update blog, my blog where not only I, but a whole lot of money, tax, finance, property and success experts, right. And I'm really pleased only yesterday, marketing people show me we have 1.2 million unique separate readers in Australia already this year. Look at it. So join a million other people to learn about money and finances. Propertyupdate.com.auSally:
We'll make sure to put all of those in the show notes for everybody.Michael Yardney:
Thank you so much for having me, Marc. Thank you, Sally.
Sally:
Thank you, Michael. It was our pleasure.Sally:
Well, there we go. Now we everything that we need to become rich and famous Marc, are you ready?Marc:
I feel equipped and ready to make millions or billions.Sally:
I mean, I was aiming for trillions sorry, catch up.Marc:
We've got time on our side as Michael said, Yeah we do. As we mentioned in the podcast we'll put all of our show notes and the links to all the goodies that we mentioned in the episode at finder.com.au/podcastSally:
And make sure to follow us on Instagram @pocketmoneypodcast, feel free to send us a DM if you have any questions about episodes if there's anything that you want to hear about. And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with a mate and leave us a friendly little review. We'll catch you around next time.Marc:
Thanks for listening to Pocket Money from Finder. Head over to finder.com.au/podcast for the show notes for this episode. The Finder podcast is intended to provide you with tips, tools and strategies that will help you make better decisions. Although we're licensed an authorised we don't provide financial advice. So please consider your own situation or get advice before making any decisions based on anything on our show. Thanks for listening.Transcribed by https://otter.ai
The Finder Pocket Money podcast is intended to provide you with tips, tools and strategies that will help you make better decisions. Although we're licensed and authorised, we (and our guests) aren't providing any form of financial or legal advice. So please consider your own situation and get proper advice about your individual circumstances before making any decisions based on anything in our show. Thanks for listening!
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Pocket Money is hosted by Sally McMullen and Marc Terrano. The show is produced by Franko Ali and Ankita Shetty. Editing and theme music from Brianna Ansaldo of Bamby Media.
finder.com.au (ACL 385509. CAR 432664) is Australia's most popular comparison site. We like to help, and we understand that our podcast provides information, insight and entertainment, but it's not personal advice. Consider your own circumstances (or get advice) before you make any decision based on our general comments and commentary.
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