Podcast: What does a financial adviser actually do?

Everything you need to know about getting financial advice

Financial advice isn't just something reserved for the wealthiest 1%. If you want to get better at something, it makes sense to learn from the experts. This is as true about learning to play the piano as it is with managing your money.

On this episode of the Pocket Money podcast, we are joined by Charlie Viola, an award-winning financial adviser and Partner for Wealth Management at Pitcher Partners in Sydney. Charlie really knows this stuff in and out.

We discuss what financial advisers really do, how to decide when you should speak with one, what to expect when you meet and how much it all costs. We also learn Charlie’s perspective on what high-net-worth individuals do with their money, some insight on investing and more great insight.

Mentioned in this episode

• Read our guide to financial advising
• Read Charlie's piece on Finder X
• Charlie Viola of Pitcher Partners
• Read about the Chook super fund that Charlie advises

Read the transcript of this episode

• Episode 117 transcript

  Charlie Viola:
  You've done the hard work, you've got yourself through uni, you've got a job that you really like, you're earning more money than you thought you would be earning. You find that there's a whole stack of cash that's burning a hole in your pocket and therefore, you spend more of it than you expect. You feel like you're not getting ahead despite what you're earning. That's a good reason to go and get advice.

  Marc:
  Hey, Sally.

  Sally:
  Hey, Marc

  Marc:
  I've got a question for you.

  Sally:
  Hit me.

  Marc:
  What does a financial adviser do?

  Sally:
  Uh, advise about, finances?

  Unknown Speaker:
  man?

  Marc:
  Well, today we're going to find out.

  Sally:
  Excellent.

  Marc:
  Excellent indeed. So we spoke to Charlie Viola, who is a partner for wealth management at Pitcher Partners. He was also rated number one adviser in Barron's 2018 Advisor Rankings and was Barron's fourth ranked adviser in 2019. And Barron's is an American financial news magazine slash newspaper and he also advises a self managed super fund, the Chook super fund.

  Sally:
  Oh, I like it. Well, sounds like he's the right guy to. So you got the 411 as the cool kids say, Marc. So what does a financial adviser do?

  Marc:
  Well, I'm not going to spoil the episode and give you the 411, Sally. You have to listen to the whole thing. But I will say that it is relevant for all of us, not only those of us who have the cash to get started investing. So definitely listen, even if you don't have a big wad, a big sack of money that you're just wanting to put on some kind of stocks or something

  Sally:
  Fabulous, so I can listen to it.

  Marc:
  Yes, basically, yes. Keep your ear holes open. Okay, so shall we listen to Charlie?

  Sally:
  Let's do it.

  Marc:
  Welcome to the show, Charlie.

  Charlie Viola:
  Thank you.

  Marc:
  We're really excited to talk to you about financial advice and wealth advisers and how they work. So first up, what does a financial adviser actually do?

  Charlie Viola:
  Fundamentally, we look at a person's situation from end to end and seek to help them meet their goals. So from beginning to end, the first question that we ask everybody and and really the process that we go through, is really get a good understanding of what their current situation looks like what assets, what liabilities, what income, what expenses. And then we jump to the other end and talk about what it is that they're actually trying to achieve. The whole process of advice is fundamentally trying to bridge the gap of where they are today, to where they would like to be at some point in the future. For some people, especially younger people, it's very much about dealing with the here and now. So certainly the advice overlay is also dealing with the here and now can I afford to buy a property? Should I buy property? Should I rent? I've got nine different super funds, should I collect them together? How do I start a savings plan? You know, mum and dad gave me 30 grand from when grandma died? How do I deal with it? So we'll certainly deal with it here and now, but the bigger contextual pieces about trying to make those long-term goals.

  Marc:
  Yeah, that's what I always wanted to being in that first category. I always wonder, should I be seeing a financial adviser or why not not have enough to actually even bother? Yeah, it's the question I always have.

  Charlie Viola:
  So I'm a bit of a purist. So you know, having been an adviser for the last 20 years, I think we can add value to everybody's situation. And I think that there's some kind of core fundamentals that we can add some value, especially to younger people. One is really anybody who's under the age of 45, or 50, you have an enforced savings vehicle, which is super, and you're going to carry that vehicle with you, for all 20 or 30, or 40 or 50 years of your working life. A really easy place to start is just make sure that's locked away in a good spot. It's well invested, it's invested in a manner that you're comfortable from an investment perspective. Then the other overlay pieces that we think are important for really for everybody is you know, we don't have to project out to age 65 and if you're speaking to a 23-year-old, I don't care about 65 and it's so far away and especially if they haven't done some of the things like get married and have kids and all of those pieces are kind of in the way, we just seek to talk about what it is it's important to them at that point in time. There's a heap of anxiety around, especially, you know, Sydney property prices or property prices generally. So we talk about, well, what are the kind of fundamental things that you need to do if you want to get into the property market? What does it mean if you want to live in the property? What does it mean, if you want to rent this, i.e. you rent elsewhere, and you invest in property over time, and then we just make sure that there's good protections in place, make sure that if you do go out and borrow money to invest, make sure you've got some insurances in place so that if it all goes pear, at least we've got an ability to fix that kind of train-wreck scenario for you. But it is still very much about understanding what the individual is looking for and understanding what their financial goals are. And I think we can give people real comfort around meeting some of their lifestyle goals by dealing with the financial.

  Marc:
  That sounds really useful. What is the difference between financial advice and wealth advice, or is no difference?

  Charlie Viola:
  It's a little, it's a little interchangeable, really, I guess financial advice for some people will be considered all the pieces around, you know the death advisory, debt reduction savings plans, helping them buy a house, making sure they understand what contributions need to go into super. As people get older and older, how much money they're going to need to retire on what level of passive income, they need to make work optional, what age they would like to make work optional. So the terms are a little interchangeable. Often we talk about wealth, as if somebody already has enough money. And they've already at the point with admit the goals in terms of their ability to obtain the wealth either because they've worked really hard over their lifetime and they've now got enough money or they've inherited it or, you know, they're from wealthy backgrounds, how the assets actually get managed to make sure that those goals continue to get met. You know, some people will talk wealth is about the money. Financial advice is about the kind of building block before you even talk about the assets themselves, but they're probably interchangeable in terms of, you know, in terms of the underlying definition.

  Marc:
  How do financial advisers make money? Because obviously, that's been in the spotlight recently.

  Charlie Viola:
  Typically, if you go and see an adviser, you'll expect to pay a couple of different fees. Generally speaking, every adviser will give you that first meeting free, that first meeting is very much intended to be exploratory, you know, very much intended to be you getting understanding of what the adviser can do for you, how they charge what their processes and the adviser's job is to really get a good understanding of the individual what their needs are, what their objectives are, what their goals are, what they lost or what their financial goals are, etc. So that initial meeting, you should always pretty well get that for nothing. If you like what you've heard as a consumer, and you like the idea of going through the advice process with an adviser, then you should expect to pay an advice fee. So what we call the document is a statement of advice. So the statement of advice is the document that firstly reads back to the client, what their current financial situation is, reads back to them, in our words exactly what we think their goals are, and then articulate the strategies that we think are appropriate to help them meet those longer-term goals. That statement of advice is very much intended to be kind of both the proposal document, but also the pathway that an adviser utilises to help meet the client goals over the medium to long term. Generally speaking, that document depending upon the complexity will cost somebody anywhere from $1,000 to 3 or 4 or $5,000. You know, depending upon how complex it is. If then, the client elects to go ahead and work with the adviser going forward to ensure that their needs are met and work through and implement what's in the plan. People should expect to pay an ongoing adviser fee. That ongoing adviser fee is generally speaking going to be one of two things, a set fee that is agreed upon between the adviser and the client, or a percentage of the underlying assets which are being managed by the adviser on behalf of the client. If part of the advice is to go and get mortgages to go and get life insurance, those things will have their own costs attached to them. And often advisers will be paid by those as well. The outcome of the Hayne Royal Commission is there's a real spotlight in terms of a couple of things. One, disclosure of fees. We have a regulatory environment that requires us very clearly and very articulately, to disclose what fees we're getting paid and how we're getting paid. There is also a real requirement around conflicts of interests. So where we both getting paid by the client and by a product provider, we have to disclose that we have to disclose that conflict, both you know, documents in an ongoing fashion, one of the outcomes of the Royal Commission in reality is that advice becomes a little less affordable over time because number one, regulatory constraints are far higher. The things that we need to do to ensure our advisers compliant is far greater than what it was previously. But previously, lots of advisers would have supplemented the cost of advice by receiving remuneration from product that's no longer really available to us. And certainly, in our business, at Pitcher Partner's Sydney Wealth Management, we're very much a fee-for-service business. We have been for a long time we were early movers on that, but certainly those advisers who were linked to financial institutions, vertical integration, as they call it, so where you both work for CBA or Westpac or NAB or what have you, and the product provider also comes from there. Often, the adviser's remuneration was somewhat subsidised by the product sale itself. That didn't mean the advice wasn't appropriate. It didn't mean that the product wasn't appropriate. It's just that the adviser could have a slightly lower-value client, because they were also getting paid by the product.

  Marc:
  Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And that's something that you sort of hear sometimes in advice about how to choose a financial adviser, which is like to be careful of that and to know what is actually happening in that transaction.

  Charlie Viola:
  Yeah, that's right. The reality is that the world's moved on and the world's moved on fairly significantly, especially in terms of disclosure fees. So I'm certainly a big one, as long as you as the consumer know exactly what fees you're paying, how the adviser's getting paid, and making sure that whatever it is that you are paying, because ultimately, even if the advice is getting paid for the product, the consumer still paying for it. You know, it's still coming out as a cost to the consumer because the products are expensive, provided the client sees absolute value in what's happening, provided they're getting the service they expect, and provided they see that whatever is being put together, is helping them meet those longer-term goals that they spent two hours talking about, then the fees should almost be secondary. The best way to choose an adviser is find someone that you can build rapport with. Find someone that you genuinely trust, because it's intended to be a long-term relationship. You know, you meant to kind of take this person throughout your life and have them give you advice on when do we get mortgages? You know, what insurances do I need? I've changed jobs what I do about my super now, you know, I've received an inheritance, how do I deal with the inheritance? I'm going to pay for the kids' school fees? Where does the money come from? I'm about to retire, have I got enough money that should be the life journey of an adviser and a client. So building rapport, and making sure that you're getting absolute value for what it is that you're paying is more important than the fees themselves?

  Marc:
  So given that, when should you actually consider going to see a financial or wealth adviser?

  Charlie Viola:
  When I started in the industry 20 years ago, we used to talk to centres of influence people that could send us work, because you know, the lifeblood of an adviser is having people refer work to them. And we talked about moments in their life that were a trigger for advice, inheritance, redundancy, buying a house, selling a house, retirement. So that's kind of the old way of thinking about it. There are times when people should actually get advice. I guess I've changed my view a little bit. And you know, as I become more knowledgeable from an advisory perspective, I guess I've changed my view to the point now where people should seek advice, really, when it is that they've got the energy and the determination to start thinking about what financial life might look like, over a period of time. If you're 19, and it's your first job and you're still at uni, you probably don't need to go and get a whole stack of advice. But if you've done the hard work, you've got yourself through uni, you've got a job that you really like you're earning more money than you thought you would be earning. You find that there's a whole stack of cash that's burning a hole in your pocket and therefore, you spend more of it than you expect. You feel like you're not getting ahead despite what you're earning. That's a good reason to go and get advice. You know, when you sort of moving through your mid-20s and you're finding that your friends are starting to buy houses and you feel like you're being left behind. Don't talk to an adviser and find out why. Find out what it is that they might actually be doing, find out what you could be doing with your money. Yeah, that's an excellent idea.

  Marc:
  Obviously, as you mentioned, paying $1,000 per statement advice probably isn't going to be for someone who's in university who's just working part-time, and maybe doesn't have a lot to actually spend on that.

  Charlie Viola:
  Yeah, that's right. I guess the reality of it is, is that number one, you need to be able to pay for the advice. And number two, you have to have some substance in terms of the ability to make some of those financial decisions over a period of time. So some of those old pieces still ring true in terms of the triggers for advice, but I think people can do it earlier than what they than what they used to. You know, previously, the average age of the person that we saw for the first time was late 50s, early 60s. Now certainly, the average age of the people that we're seeing for the first time would be late 30s, early 40s, for a whole bunch of reasons. One, those people have now had to contribute to super for 15 or 16 years, therefore the material amount they've gotten super is greater, while we've seen slow wage growth over a period of time. We have seen wage growth, you know, some people are earning more today than what they were 15 or 20 years ago. And there is a haven the media, especially around this kind of anxiety of buying houses and, and wanting to work out how they get into the property market, etc. The other thing that's happening is that we obviously have this this kind of thick blanket of kind of baby boomers from an economic point of view in Australia, which means that the intergenerational transfer of wealth is now starting to happen. So another good time to get advice is when mum and dad are starting to go higher, and rather you actually have some money now, rather than when I'm dead, and I can't, you know, can't see you enjoy it. So previously, once upon a time, we only got money of our parents when they die. Whereas now as people are getting wealthier and wealthier is starting to do that intergenerational transfer a little earlier than what they previously did.

  Marc:
  That's excellent. Okay, so given all of that, how do you go about actually shopping for a financial adviser? You know, we have Tinder to find our boyfriends and girlfriends and our partners, we don't really have that for financial advisers. So how would you go about doing that?

  Charlie Viola:
  The best adviser that you'll ever find is the one that you've been able to build a rapport with, and the one that you can genuinely trust and the one that is reasonably upfront with you. So I often think that easiest way to find advisers via referral is talk to other people, talk to friends, talk to family, talk to friends and family, talk to wealthy people. And so who do you use there is something like 20,000 advisers, right? So in reality where diamond a dozen, so the best way to find a really good one is take that personal referral because what you actually want to do is turn up with that to that person, and at least you know that somebody else actually trusts them. I'm not a big one for badge shopping or brand shopping. I think that there are a heap of really good advisers who people will never see you know, the banks are obviously full of advisers IMP, you've got a whole bunch of advisers and those, those organisations will have some really, really good ones, but I'm not a big one for badge shopping. I'm not a big one for brand shopping. I'm a big one for people kind of getting that personal referral, finding the relationship, and then going and seeing how it works. And also a big one for people seeing more than one. Because in reality, if somebody comes and sees me, and then they go and see the person down the road, if they tell us the exact same story we should tell them pretty well, pretty close the exact same outcomes. Because we all go through a process, we all go through a process of understanding assets, liabilities, income expenses, financial goals, you know what, as you love to retire, all that sort of stuff, it's about feeling really comfortable to have good, open, honest conversations with that person. And until such time as you've kind of met a couple and felt comfortable with it, how can you then suddenly give them every piece of data that you've got in your financial life? You know, we as advisers have to be acutely aware that we look after people's life savings, so we want them to trust us. So we want them to have road tested others to see whether or not they actually lock us in and a happy to work with this over the long term.

  Marc:
  Yeah, that's awesome. Charlie we've come to our rapid fire round, we'd like to break up the interview with a few really quick questions and answers. So let's start with the first question. What's the difference between an adviser and an accountant?

  Charlie Viola:
  An accountant will generally do tax returns and adviser won't do your tax returns. They'll seek to do the long-term planning piece.

  Marc:
  Is there anything off limits when you talk to a financial adviser, for example, what could they help you with it when it comes to finances or related topics?

  Charlie Viola:
  So we can't give tax advice. So we can only give incidental tax advice incidental to the financial advisory piece, we generally won't give specific property advice or which property by one over the other. In reality, we should be able to cover the whole spectrum of a client's situation. We can't give legal advice clearly because we're not lawyers.

  Marc:
  That's great. What is the strangest thing you've ever encountered in your job?

  Charlie Viola:
  Very early on in my career, I worked at CBA, a person walked in with a bag of cash that was three mil put the bank cash on the desk and said, "You invest this in your name and I'll come back for it in a year."

  Marc:
  Wow, what did you think when that happened?

  Charlie Viola:
  I pushed the bag back at them and asked them to leave! Yeah, that was certainly the strangest thing that's ever happened to this date. I still tell that story because it's still bloody strange.

  Marc:
  That's crazy. Do you ever think about who that was? How they got the money? Or

  Charlie Viola:
  I think before they left, I actually asked them how they got their money, they wouldn't tell me. So clearly, the fact that they asked for it to be invested in my personal name meant that it came as a result of something illegal, I assume it was bizarre. So.

  Marc:
  That's awesome. I'm going to give you some company names and some investment classes, I suppose or assets, just want to know what you think overrated or underrated thoughts. Apple?

  Charlie Viola:
  Apple is the type of asset that should be held by everybody, not because they make disposable plastic phones, but because one day, it'll be a worldwide banking platform. So the power of Apple is huge.

  Marc:
  Tesla?

  Charlie Viola
  Tesla is almost the same, the disruption that Tesla is able to produce in the market is huge, not because they make cars but because they're going to make the beats that have to go into every car over time, you know, lane departure and all that sort of stuff.

  Marc:
  Amazon?

  Charlie Viola
  Amazon's going to go from being you know, click to find a book to click to do my shopping. So again, the power and the reach of that organisation is huge. And the disruption that it's able to produce to the rest of the kind of consumer market is really quite significant. So we would be a long-term holder of that type of asset and we really like those disruption style assets in it in our portfolios.

  Marc:
  Awesome. Okay, let me change gears and say Bitcoin?

  Charlie Viola:
  I must say that people may be really wary of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency so here I am with with 20 years of experience in the financial industry in a well educated and I don't even understand it that well. So it's not certainly not something that we would ever invest in, we don't really understand the market maker for that style of asset. So, my view is be really wary only invest in things you understanding and buy good quality normal assets that have got tangible outcomes to them. Which cryptocurrency's not.

  Marc:
  Side question, do you get a lot of people coming in asking you about cryptocurrency and Bitcoins?

  Charlie Viola:
  Not really. The odd person. As this kind of generational change occurs, and we start to see people who are kind of less than 35, there is certainly the odd question that comes about. Generally speaking, we will seek to send them some information, but we're just not experts. In fairness, and it's, you know, again, it's hard to say the investment thesis behind Bitcoin or cryptocurrency. So everything we do, we try and create that kind of investment thesis behind and that one's a really hard one to do it with.

  Marc:
  Gold?

  Charlie Viola:
  Gold, like a number of other asset classes is a reasonable safe haven. So it doesn't produce income, which means that we don't like it that much, because we like assets to produce income. But you know, it's a reasonable hedge, you know, it's a reasonable kind of safe haven for small parts of big portfolios.

  Marc:
  Awesome. What about the Big Four?

  Charlie Viola:
  The Big Four banks? So, you know, I'm a little contrary in here, you know, I still think the banks play a really vital part of our economy, you know, the huge employers for us, they have a lot to do in terms of the flow of capital, obviously, the bank still mainly make their money out of credit growth, people going out and borrowing money to buy houses, I think that they play a really important role. From that perspective, I think a lot of the stuff that sort of come out of the general commission into banking and financial services, has meant that the banks have kind of shine a light on their processes. And I think that, you know, some of those are really good things, you know, I almost get annoyed at times as to all the bank bashing that actually goes on actually, in the banks is one of the reasons why our economy is actually so strong. So virtually everybody in Australia holds shares, whether directly or indirectly, in the banks, we all benefit from the manner in which the banks, you know, participate in our economy. Now, I think the banks are really important, and the banks, and I think we should all, you know, wake up every morning and kind of thank the financial gods, that we have banks that are strong as they are.

  Marc:
  Okay, the last one is a more controversial one. But what about marijuana and the companies that are legitimately producing marijuana in various countries, and from an investment perspective?

  Charlie Viola:
  It's probably one of those disruptor assets, right? So it's probably one of those assets that there are a number of clients and a number of wealthy well-educated clients who want to take a piece of marijuana because... take a piece of investing in marjiuana, haha. Because they do you see it as that genuine disruptor, you know, they see it as that next wave of kind of the medicinal piece, until such time as it actually meets the mainstream pharmaceutical piece, it's going to be hard to kind of build up the investment thesis on it. And if you actually look at the actual companies who produce this stuff, they continue to be really small cap, they tend to be underfunded, they continue to struggle to kind of wind mandates, etc. So they're hard to invest in as a result of that, because you get no liquidity. And it's hard to see kind of the upside. But the minute it comes to mainstream from a pharmaceutical point of view, I actually think that, you know, however, they end up commodity, marijuana, the price will end up skyrocketing anyway, that's not advice. And I don't know that for sure. But that's in reality, what we can see actually occurring, especially if the benefits of it can be clinically proven.

  Marc:
  That's awesome. Well, that's the end of our rapid fire around. So thanks for that. So let's, let's move on to our last few questions. So you've sold me and I'm heading to my first meeting with a financial adviser, what should I be taking with me or preparing?

  Charlie Viola:
  Certainly take with you a good understanding and collate those main, I guess what we call the quantitative pieces? So a good understanding of your assets, your liabilities, your income, your expenses, and then have a really good think about what it is that you actually want out of that meeting? And what specific financial questions have you got? What goals are you actually trying to achieve? And in reality, what pieces do you want the adviser to cover for you? Do you want him to cover? How do I get the best out of my super? Do you want him to cover? Do I go and buy a house to live in, or do I buy one to rent? Should I borrow to invest in shares? Make sure you're prepared enough so that you get real value out of that first meeting. So at least that time isn't my sin, but also, the more prepared you are, the better the adviser is going to have the ability to add value straightaway. And the better that you built your ability to build rapport, because you'll be talking about stuff that you're genuinely interested in and genuinely have an outcome that you're looking for from.

  Marc:
  And is there one question that everybody should definitely ask when they meet with a financial adviser?

  Charlie Viola:
  So notwithstanding that I made the comment before about the fees are the be all and end all? I think the best question that can be asked is, how does your advice make my best interests? Because that's ultimately, the role of an adviser, I'm sure any advice that gets provided is in the absolute best interests of the person that they're looking after? And I think as you get towards the end of that initial meeting, that should be the fundamental question that gets asked, even if all they're doing is summarising the conversation that you've had over that period, make sure that what they're doing is they're articulating back how whatever it is that they're going to suggest that you do is meeting those longer-term goals and meeting your best interests.

  Marc:
  Cool. That's great. You've obviously in the past worked with high-net-worth individuals. What's the difference when you're giving them financial advice?

  Charlie Viola:
  Yeah, so lots of times, it's about protecting the assets. And it's about ensuring the assets, well structured and producing the most efficient outcomes. So what I say and you know, every one of our clients would would attest to this is that I really say that, once we've got the assets in the right buckets, you know, financial advice in Australia really isn't rocket science, you know, we only have four tax structures available to us. So once we got all the money in the right buckets, and we're producing income from the right buckets, I make the point to every client that really only have three jobs, one is ensure that the assets continue to produce income, because it's that income that ultimately is going to allow them to live happily ever after, to ensure we don't blow it up. So ensure that we don't lose the assets or ensure that we invest in things that we're not going concerned about the impairment of the asset, because if the asset becomes impaired, it'll stop producing income, which will stop their ability to live happily ever after. And the third one is, is ensure we get some growth out of the assets so that we protect the buying power out of the money over time. So the reality is, is make sure it's well structured, make sure it's efficient, from a tax perspective, best we can and make sure we're buying good quality assets that produce income, and we do see some level of growth over time to protect its buying power. And you mentioned impaired what does that mean for the average person on the street, I guess the way we measure risk is not so much the risk of volatility, not so much the risk of an asset going up or down in value, rather, the asset becoming impaired or fundamentally disappearing or not having any value at all. And you know, to use a really simple example, whether CBA shares are $81, or $79, or $76, or $83, the chances of that asset becoming impaired or turning into being worth zero is very low, the chances of it not being able to produce income for you is very low, because we know that that company has got good key competitive advantages good continuity of earnings, and therefore whether the share price is $75 or $85. It's going to continue to produce a return on your investment. Use the comment before about cryptocurrency your Bitcoin, there is an asset that we have no confidence won't simply become impaired. We may wake up tomorrow and someone's cracked the code, someone's done the blockchain and it's worth nothing. So hence, we probably don't really want to invest.

  Marc:
  Yeah, right. Okay. And obviously working with high-net-worth individuals. Do you have any interesting stories that you can share, obviously, without mentioning names?

  Charlie Viola:
  Not really, except that you find the wealthier people the nicer they tend to be. And the more relaxed it gets, but I have some of the anxieties that the rest of us do in terms of in terms of having enough money in life.

  Marc:
  Thank you so much for your time, Charlie, has been really great conversation. I've learned heaps.

  Charlie Viola:
  Thank you, Marc, much appreciated.

  Sally:
  I feel richer already.

  Marc:
  Great line, Sally.

  Sally:
  Thanks, I didn't rip that off our producer Franko at all. Well, thanks for listening everyone to another fabulous episode of Pocket Money.

  Marc:
  Yeah, as always, if you enjoyed the show, be sure to follow us or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from.

  Sally:
  And feel free to leave a lovely review and for all of the firemoney names follow us on Instagram at @pocketmoneypodcast. Fire as in like spicy not financial independence retire early. Although, we do have some of those as well, I'm sure.

  Sally:
  Thanks for the love everyone.

  Marc:
  Thanks, pals.

  Sally:
  Thanks for listening to Pocket Money from Finder. Head over to finder.com.au/podcast for the show notes for this episode. The finder podcast is intended to provide you with tips tools and strategies that will help you make better decisions. Although we're licensed in authorised we don't provide financial advice. So please consider your current situation or get advice before making any decisions based on anything and now sure. Thanks for listening.

  Sally:
  See you next time. Like this is a podcast. Like we're not saying anyone.

  Marc:
  This can be listened to in any order.

  Sally:
  I'm so sorry.

  Transcribed by https://otter.ai

The Finder Pocket Money podcast is intended to provide you with tips, tools and strategies that will help you make better decisions. Although we're licensed and authorised, we (and our guests) aren't providing any form of financial or legal advice. So please consider your own situation and get proper advice about your individual circumstances before making any decisions based on anything in our show. Thanks for listening!

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Pocket Money is hosted by Sally McMullen and Marc Terrano. The show is produced by Franko Ali and Ankita Shetty. Editing and theme music from Brianna Ansaldo of Bamby Media.

finder.com.au (ACL 385509. CAR 432664) is Australia's most popular comparison site. We like to help, and we understand that our podcast provides information, insight and entertainment, but it's not personal advice. Consider your own circumstances (or get advice) before you make any decision based on our general comments and commentary.